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Re: PEP 008 - Possibility of using PuppetLabs Razor?

----- Original Message -----
> <http://gazebohub.github.io/docs/arbor/openshift-ref.m.pdf>Good
> afternoon, <http://openshift.github.io/documentation/openshift-pep-008.html>
> If it may serve to provide a brief sense of context: Recently, I've been
> working on some documentation with regards to OpenShift essentially in
> trying to build a sort of breadcrumb trail -- in a form of
> documentation[1] -- to the point of installing a Jetspeed portal on
> OpenShift Origin. In the current, published draft of the documentation,
> I've got only so far as to make a sort of SPEM-structured view[1] of the
> simple process of installing the 'rhc' gem, as documented in existing
> OpenShift docs -- essentially, collating some refs under a SPEM view of
> the tooling side of the process.  Today, in the interest of setting up
> some staging for the app distribution model, I've also started working
> on collating the refs with regards to the OpenShift Origin virtual
> machine image and specifically, Virtualbox. That newest edition of
> documentation is available in its DocBook XML source code[2]
> To the matter: I was doing a brief Google search, when I found firstly,
> the Github repository of PuppetLabs' Razor server[3], and then PEP
> 008[4], titled ' OpenShift Installation Tool '. Though it may seem
> perhaps too fortuitious, I thought it may be feasible that Razor could
> be used in regards to the development of that PEP 008.
> Razor's architecture is more or less described in the README.md file at
> [3]. The corresponding Razor client's source code is available at [5]
> (cf. [6]). There's a Puppet module for the Razor server, also.[7]

I just looked over what Razor does, and I think it sits below where OpenShift runs.  That is, it seems to me that Razor would be a peer to AWS or OpenStack or something like Vagrant, which bring VMs into existence.

OpenShift installation (as defined in PEP-008) begins after the bare metal hosts or VMs exist.

Puppet and other CMS "Configuration Management Systems" (cfengine, bcfg2, chef, ansible et al) sit between hardware and OS provisioning and full running applications.  They are mechanisms for applying applications onto running (but unconfigured) host systems.  

The PEP-008 "installer" is really a tool for creating input for those CMS systems. We're actually trying fairly hard to keep the installer decoupled from the particular CMS so OpenShift implementors can choose the tools best suited for them (though we are going with a couple of reference implementations because you can't do everything at once).

That said, there is definitely some information in the installer output which can be used to create the hosts or VMs that the OpenShift service requires.
Harrison Ripps (the lead designer of the installer) is also working with several people in the OpenStack community so that they can accept input from the installer
so that they can automate the service deployment process from the ground up.  Razor may be another service which could accept the installer output and prepare the required underlying hosts.

I wrote a little about the deployment layers and where the different tools fit a couple of months ago.  The focus was puppet and CMS but the beginning it just trying to tease apart the layers.


> Personally, as far what mileage there may be available with PEP 008,
> myself I suppose I'm only beginning to understand the relevance of Ruby
> in regards to automation of systems administration tasks, cf. Puppet.

Ruby was a choice of convenience for developing OpenShift and unrelated to Puppet at the time.  I think the choice of language is much less important than the choice of tool, so that if you choose Puppet for your CMS, Ruby comes along for the ride.

> (I'm a fan of Common Lisp frankly -- and model driven engineering,
> latterly -- but considering Ruby's use in Puppet, I think that's a good
> incentive to learn a new programming language, certainly.) 

*grin* You won't find a lot of modern system administration and system management tools written in Common Lisp or Scheme.  They're great academic languages, but the sheer weight of existing code in the system space means that if you mean to get into system development and system administration you're going to need a lot more than one new language and your Common Lisp isn't going to be very useful (though it will inform your use of others alot)

I mean,
> anyone familiar with the Ruby language certainly ma be able to gain some
> mileage with Razor + PEP 008 a lot more quickly than myself. Simply,
> upon having noticed what may be a fortuitious correlation that Razor
> could be used in regards to PEP 008, in an agile sense I thought it
> might simply be worth mentioning on the list, as this list is denoted in
> PEP 008.

The mention is definitely good.  Those of us thinking or working on installation and management tasks are keeping our eyes and ears open for useful tools and
additional communities.

> So, though I'm not familiar with the PEP process for OpenShift, but if
> it may be informal enough that one may inquire as so, I would like to
> inquire as to whether there may be an opportunity to contribute some
> lines of code about PEP 008? alterantely, if there may be any further
> design work about it, at present?

I'm not sure about the PEP contribution process itself, but merely commenting as you have is a great start.  I have to look to see if there's a standard method in Github to comment on existing files outside the pull-request process.  You certainly can create a fork of the PEP repository, make changes you'd like to see and then submit a pull request for the changes.  There is a commentary process built into github for that.

Whether on the PEP or other topics there's the OpenShift Origin Community hangout on G+ which happens to be today at noon EDT (16:00UTC)

Look for details in the community here:


> If there may even be a seperate GitHub repository available for PEP 008,


> or any sort of a whiteboard or normal forum for it, maybe Razor itself
> could become to a nice UML model, and  PEP 008 also, and then some glue
> between the two?

UML.... ohhhh UML..... no one else in OpenShift seems that interested in formal modelling and I'm not very good at it but I try.

> Cheers,
> -- Sean
> [1] http://gazebohub.github.io/docs/arbor/openshift-ref.m.pdf
> <http://gazebohub.github.io/docs/arbor/openshift-ref.m.pdf>
> [2] https://github.com/GazeboHub/ghub-arbor/tree/master/doc/docbook
> [3] https://github.com/puppetlabs/razor-server
> [4] http://openshift.github.io/documentation/openshift-pep-008.html
> <http://openshift.github.io/documentation/openshift-pep-008.html>
> [5]
> <http://gazebohub.github.io/docs/arbor/openshift-ref.m.pdf>https://github.com/puppetlabs/razor-el-mk
> [6] https://github.com/puppetlabs/Razor
> [7]
> https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-razor<http://gazebohub.github.io/docs/arbor/openshift-ref.m.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
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> dev lists openshift redhat com
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Mark Lamourine <markllama redhat com>
Sr. Software Developer, Cloud Engineering
Red Hat, 314 Littleton Road, Westford MA 01886
Voice: +1 978 392 1093
markllama @ irc://irc.freenod.org*lopsa

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